Oliver WhiteFollowing his tangle with Felipe Massa during the closing stages of the Japanese Grand Prix, Scuderia Toro Rosso driver Sebastien Bourdais has been given a 25s penalty. This added time demotes the Frenchman from sixth to tenth, therefore promoting team mate Sebastian Vettel, Felipe Massa, Mark Webber and Nick Heidfeld up the finishing order. The extra point will help Massa in his bid to claim the driver’s title, and the lost points will hurt both Bourdais and his team.
The incident in question happened as Bourdais exited the pitlane after his final stop on lap 50. Bourdais came out as Massa was hurtling down the long straight, and the STR driver took the natural inside line into the first corner. From the angle of the video, it looked as though Massa just turned in and caught Bourdais’s car, sending the Brazilian driver into a spin.
To be honest, I fail to see where Bourdais could have gone to avoid the incident, but clearly the stewards feel differently. Once again, a result has been changed after a race, which annoys me a lot, particuarly when it looked as though it was a simple racing incident.
For me it’s very clear. Yes, I exit the pits, yes I’m supposed to be careful and I was. I stayed inside and I didn’t push him out, I didn’t overshoot the corner. I did everything I could not to run into him and he just squeezed and turned and behaved like I didn’t exist, like I wasn’t there. What am I supposed to do?
I’ve been in this position many, many times and I never had any incidents. It’s just a little bit of respect, you give each other room and then everything goes right, but if you don’t for sure it’s going to be an incident. Sebastien Bourdais.
The stewards in Japan seemed very much to want to penalise drivers for any infraction, as they have done for the majority of the season. It seems as though racing is no longer allowed in Formula One if you want to avoid penalty.
[poll=”27″]
so if theyre going to penilise people why not massa for running over the white line and leaving the track while overtaking webber?!
What???
Unbelievable…Massa squeezed Bourdais and left him nowhere to go. He effectively drove into him! if anyone should have recieved a penalty (and I don’t feel anyone should) it should have been him???
I wonder if we’ll see another rule change…I mean…clarification to justify this…if another driver tries to evertake you when you leave the pits you must wait at least one more corner until defending?
[…] Despite the race coming to a close though, it wasn’t the end of the dramas as Felipe Massa collided with Sebastien Bourdais as the French pilot exited the pitlane. Going into the first corner on the inside, Bourdais had no where to go when Massa came charging along. Massa turned into the corner, made contact with the Scuderia Toro Rosso and spun. Fortunately, both drivers were able to continue, although the incident would come under another investigation by the stewards. The result of which was Bourdais being given a 25s penalty. […]
Looking at the three penalties in this race:
1. Hamilton: Possibly by the strictest interpretation of the rules, yes, but I fail to see the precedents in its application.
2. Massa: A few years ago this would have been a racing incident, but in today’s climate of handing out penalties like candy, I guess it was justified. Too many wheels, too far off the track for me.
3. Bourdais: This penalty appears to have been applied in line with FIA policy. You know which one I mean.
It’s a real shame, but yes I do.
And wow, so far 93 of you have voted “No”, 3 for “Yes”.
[…] finally, after the completion of the race, Sebastien Bourdais was reprimanded for exiting the pitlane and driving the only line that was surely available to him. Massa was […]
You can quite clearly see Bourdais’s front right wheel is on the kerb. Massa is entirely at fault for the collision. So the stewards gave him one point as a penalty. Add that to the points he gaained by his non-penalty in Valencia and Hamilton’s penalty at Spain and it puts a very different spin on the championship. You can also add in your own guess of where Lewis would have finished in relation to Massa today had he not been penalised for trying to overtake Kimi.
I would have to go with “I don’t know” – when I watched it live I assumed it was Massa’s fault more than anything but from the angle it was difficult to say whether he had left Seb room or not.
You’d have to assume the stewards watched different angles and concluded this was the case, but as they never talk about it we will never know.
Ed Gorman of The Times has heard they may be changing this stance for next year – it can’t come soon enough.
Well what can you say, words fail me, no more studying the form, no more buying of F1 related literature or products, why bother studying lap times when the third driver for Ferrari in race control is pulling the strings, the only reason I will watch F1 now is a.) get the names of advertisers that I can e-mail telling them why Iam boycotting there products. b.) The crashes. RIP F1 I will miss you. And as for Bourdais getting the penalty instead of Bam Bam is such a blatent FIA bias that they might of well give them the trophy now
Oh as I no longer bother with the results and only crashes, the winner by a country mile is Coulthard, that was a quality crash good to see the trye barrier didnt try and eat him and that he climbed out of the car unharmed
to Adam: Webber squeezed Massa into the exit lane to such a point that Webber himself moved into the exit lane. I have the pictures -taken for the ITV program that show without any doubt that Webber is responsible for that. Massa choose to overtake on the right side (between Webber’s car and the wall) while he was on the straight line. That is Ok to me, Lewis had done that on a couple of fantastic starts I don’t see any problem -only that the driver is taking a risk- that is certainly NOT a reason to push him and even more to force him into the exit lane!
http://agof1blog.wordpress.com/2008/10/12/incident-massa-webber/
clicking on the pictures will enlarge them.
Just to update, after 223 votes, 97% of voters reckon the penalty was unjust. I don’t think a BlogF1 poll has ever this one-sided before.
I understand the stewards overuled Charlie Whiting regarding the SeaBass penalty. According to press reports, Charlie indicated Seb was not deserving of a penalty. I wonder who got to the stewards…as if I didn’t have a pretty good idea.
I can probably guess as well… …but I might be wrong. There’s an outside possibility that Red Bull might have done it as well as the obvious candidate, for similar reasons.
It was pretty obvious from the TV was Bourdais was driving quite normally. While Massa probably didn’t intend to strike him, I don’t think Sebastién’s logical path onto the track was taken into account. It was a dumb crash, but pushing sensible people down the order is not the way to reduce the dumb quotient in F1.
It`s so sad to think that F1 has entered the World of spin, what ever happens on the track is irrelivent, its what the press report next day, boring race with boring result page 10, `Driver does this, driver does the other, nazi implications to orgy of depravity implicates the implicaters, its never ending bul***it of spin apart from the racing` but I suppose thats the future we are e-mailing to each other.
Can we not just get rid of the stewards? Both Hamilton and Massa were pushing and racing. It makes for great racing, great viewing and in my opinion both drivers did exactly what would be expected of any great driver in similar circumstances. In any of the incidents, if the drivers had got away with the manoeuvre they would be hailed as heroes. Hero to Zero, that’s life, but it makes for great TV. F1 needs to take a lesson from Moto GP.
Without the rules, all games are folly.
But the stewards are showing…” In the Land of the blind, the man with one eye is King”
As David Hobbs of the SPEED broadcast crew has said several times regarding Bourdais (including after this week’s incident)…”If poor old Sebastien Bourdais diden’t have bad luck, he’d have no luck at all.”
Indeed Seb appears to be getting a bad break here…perhaps Max or some other powerbroker in the FIA hierarchy is trying to do their part in forcing him out of the SRT seat in order to get Buemi, Senna, or some other flashy young hotshoe in there to make the sport more marketable and appealing….
And to think that at the start of the season, Bourdais in an STR was seen as a good marketing move. Now I’m wondering conspiracy theories, like did Gerhard Berger and/or Dietrich Mateschitz and/or Bernie Ecclestone have advance notice/strong belief that the unification of CART and IRL would occur this year and contrive to get Bourdais out of the way?
I hate conspiracy theories, but those with power in F1 act in ways that promote so many 🙁
I will change my wote. At http://www.formula1.com they have a film sequence that show the incident from different angels and it’s clear that Bourdais run wide. He is a long way from the curbs. Look here http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/10/8530.html
Why not give three options in the poll?
1) Bordais was properly penalized;
2) Racing incident; and
3) Massa committed a penality.
Clearly, Massa did not allow the driver with the inside line a car width to make the turn. That’s a penality.
“it’s clear that Bourdais run wide. He is a long way from the curbs.”
I watched the video, and what i see is that Bourdais tried to go so far to the right to give Massa room that he ended up bouncing off the curb. Massa acted as if he didn’t see Bourdais at all or expected him to brake and give up the position.
The two cars were entering the turn side by side and Massa should’ve left enough room for Bourdais, but didn’t.
Stupid, rediculous, thick, pathetic, dumb ….
Bourdais – being penalised is wrong, he was on the racing line and Massa crossed white line! Another example of the Ferrari Improvement Appreciation.
Hamilton, well too many examples to bother mentioning on this one, not least Massa at Turkey (wasn’t it) when it was called a brilliant overtaking maneuverer, what is the difference!
Massa, well obviously history (Senna / Prost, Hill / Schumacher, Villeneuve / Schumacher) oh its so boring, so many examples.